Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/11/1994 03:38 PM Senate RES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                   SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                  
                         March 11, 1994                                        
                           3:38 P.M.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Mike Miller, Chairman                                                 
 Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman                                            
 Senator Steve Frank                                                           
 Senator Drue Pearce                                                           
 Senator Al Adams                                                              
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Fred Zharoff                                                          
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 16                                           
 Relating to release of nonproprietary geographic information system           
 files in possession of the state.                                             
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 299                                                           
 "An Act providing that the commissioner of natural resources may              
 not charge or assess a general administrative service fee for                 
 certain appropriations of water."                                             
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
 SCR 16 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
 SB 299 - See Resources minutes dated 3/11/94.                                 
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Dr. Doug Segar, Director                                                      
 Environment and Natural Resources Institute                                   
 University of Alaska, Anchorage                                               
 707 A Street                                                                  
 Anchorage, Ak. 99501                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SCR 16.                                      
                                                                               
 Richard McMahon, Acting Chief                                                 
 Land Records Information                                                      
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 P.O. Box 107005                                                               
 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SCR 16.                                      
                                                                               
 Ric Davidge, Director                                                         
 Division of Water                                                             
 Chief, Alaska Hydrologic Survey                                               
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 P.O. Box 107005                                                               
 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed SB 299.                                        
                                                                               
 Gary Newman                                                                   
 1083 Esro Road                                                                
 Fairbanks, Ak. 99712                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SB 299.                                      
                                                                               
 Gary Prokosch                                                                 
 Water Management Development                                                  
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 P.O. Box 107005                                                               
 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed SB 299.                                        
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-18, SIDE A                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at            
 3:38 p.m. and announced  SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 16                  
 (Relating to release of nonproprietary geographic information                 
 system files in possession of the state.) to be up for                        
 consideration.                                                                
                                                                               
 JO FENETY, Legislative Aide to Senator Pearce, sponsor, said she              
 would turn the discussion over to Dr. Doug Segar, Director for the            
 Environment and Natural Resources Institute at the University of              
 Alaska, to answer questions.                                                  
                                                                               
 DR. SEGAR said they have been given the mission of providing the              
 central public information access node for environment and natural            
 resource data in the state, serving the public and state and                  
 federal agencies and their need to get information from a variety             
 of sources.                                                                   
                                                                               
 In 1981 the Alaska State Climate Center was added to the                      
 organization.  In 1993 the Alaska Natural Heritage Program was                
 added.  This year they are adding an Environmental Mediation and              
 Conflict Resolution Program. Their primary mission is to gather               
 data, (not to do research), analyze, and synthesize it, and make it           
 available to those people in the state who need it.  They process             
 on the average of 4,000 requests for information per year, MR.                
 SEGAR said.  State funding is only the base of their operations.              
 They get 3 federal dollars for every 1 state dollar.                          
                                                                               
 Up to this point in time the information they have gathered has               
 been discs on data in spreadsheet format, data reports, and                   
 technical reports from all of the agencies, including Arco and BP.            
 Recently GIS geographical information systems have become the                 
 replacement, in essence, for data reports.  The continuously                  
 evolving geographic systems are much more efficient, because from             
 that source you can get more information, more quickly, and analyze           
 the data much more easily.                                                    
                                                                               
 The problem is that they no longer get data reports from some of              
 the agencies and they are soon to be designated as a data center              
 for the United Nations Environment Program Geographical Information           
 Data System.  That means they will have access to all the U.N.                
 environment program GIS files for the entire world.                           
                                                                               
 MR. SEGAR informed the Committee that they are also the first of              
 the Northern Forum data centers.  They are also negotiating a                 
 cooperative agreement to be the data center to transmit information           
 between state agencies and the new national biological survey.                
 They are working with the Environmental Resources Institute (SRI)             
 to develop software the public can use and software that will allow           
 them to do time series data to look for time change in the                    
 environmental data.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 220                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked why they need the resolution.  MR. SEGAR said             
 they have requested information from various departments and some             
 are willing and some will provide it only for an up front cost that           
 is beyond their ability to fund.                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked about the complaints of duplicating services              
 that had been heard from private contractors.  MR. SEGAR said he              
 had heard of them and they are cooperating with these engineering             
 companies and are actually hoping to place some of their students             
 with them.  He said now there is no serious problem.                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if the information would be available to for-             
 profit data managers.  He explained there are agreements with their           
 clients that specify second use provisions.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 258                                                                    
                                                                               
 RICHARD MCMAHON, Manager, Land Records Information Section,                   
 Department of Natural Resources, agreed with Dr. Seger's testimony.           
 With the increasing importance of environmental issues, an active             
 role for the repository is much more beneficial than a passive one.           
 He emphasized the GIS systems are typically very large and very               
 complicated and have a lot of information.  Care must be taken to             
 prevent unnecessary duplication.  More active communication with              
 AIDC agencies will have to develop responsible methods for the                
 dissemination of information and he supported the cooperative                 
 approach that Mr. Segar mentioned.                                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER said he intended to move the bill when there was a             
 quorum and announced  SB 299  (REPEAL ADMINISTRATIVE WATER FEE) to be    be   
 up for consideration.  He explained that it repeals the authority             
 of the Commissioner to charge a $50 administrative fee for                    
 appropriation of water.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 311                                                                    
                                                                               
 RIC DAVIDGE, Director, Division of Water, said when this fee was              
 recently passed, the state had no authority to assess fees in order           
 to collect revenue from the export of water.  Because of certain              
 supreme court decisions that say the state can't charge California            
 more than it charges itself, they discussed a variety of fees.  For           
 example, he said they had applications for large amounts of water             
 with fees of $200 and the cost of the adjudication of some of those           
 services was in excess of $100,000.  At the time, the Resources               
 Committee requested him to come up with a fee respective of all the           
 costs associated with the administrative services they provided.              
 It would not be cost effective to bill for those services every               
 time.  They found that 3,000 of 16,000 were causing the costs.                
 Going through the regulatory process they identified the                      
 approximately 3,000 citizens that would be affected by the fee.               
 Updating their files allowed them to drop 1,000 people.                       
                                                                               
 Out of the first billing last year they received about $100,000               
 with about 95% compliance.  With their second billing they expect             
 98% compliance, MR. DAVIDGE said.                                             
                                                                               
 One of the reasons they are doing this is because there is a                  
 dramatic reduction in general fund authorizations for the Division            
 of Water and an increase in program receipt authorizations.  Out of           
 a $1.8 million budget for the Division of Water, MR. DAVIDGE said,            
 $600,000 is fees generated through direct services provided to the            
 public.  The fee only applies to commercial uses of 500 gallons of            
 water a day or more or associated uses to single family dwellings             
 that use 1500 gallons a day or more.                                          
                                                                               
 MR. DAVIDGE said they have reviewed specific situations directly              
 with the affected citizens and have resolved any problems that have           
 come up.  He offered to do that with Senator Miller's constituents.           
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER thanked him and announced they did now have a quorum           
 and would act on SCR 16.                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR PEARCE moved to pass SCR 16 from Committee with individual            
 recommendations .  There were no objections and it was so ordered.            
                                                                               
 Number 360                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER announced  SB 299  (REPEAL ADMINISTRATIVE WATER FEE)           
 to be back before the Committee.                                              
                                                                               
 GARY NEWMAN, Fairbanks resident, said his fee is one that needs               
 adjusting on 2 basic issues.  First of all the fee is not                     
 equitable, because except for a few groups like the AJ Mine, Beluga           
 Coal, etc., the others just don't generate much need for a large              
 fee.  He also objected to the retroactive clause.                             
                                                                               
 MR. DAVIDGE responded that in his case he had a water right that              
 was far in excess of what he was using.  He has relinquished                  
 voluntarily the water he is no longer using.  Under AS 46.15 if               
 they give someone a water right for 5,000 gallons a day and they              
 are actually using 500 gallons a day, they don't have a right to              
 the balance.  A lot of these normal relinquishments have not been             
 processed.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK asked if there were any water use constraints in the            
 state.  MR. DAVIDGE said we do have areas of aquifers in stress in            
 Juneau, Kodiak, Anchorage Hillside, and more.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 449                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER asked at what point can the Department notify people           
 to reapply for water rights they haven't developed to the point of            
 using, yet, in a stressed area?  MR. DAVIDGE replied they issue a             
 five year permit that allows someone to perfect their water rights            
 that can be extended up to two times.  If they don't perfect their            
 water rights, they can relinquish the amount of water they are not            
 using or close the file on the application.  If a person has water            
 rights, they will be notified of developments that may affect them.           
 This is required in statute.                                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked what the actual cost was per billing.  MR.                
 DAVIDGE said now that the program is completely computerized, it              
 costs less than $10 per application.                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked what they did with non-compliers?  MR. DAVIDGE            
 said they turn them over to collection, but they have very few                
 problems.  He said the most water a family would use is 500 gallons           
 a day.  He said there is no requirement for people who have a well            
 in their home.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 506                                                                    
                                                                               
 GARY PROKOSCH, Water Management Development, explained that the law           
 says if you use greater than 500 gallons per day, you must apply.             
 You do not have to apply for under 500 gallons per day up to 10               
 days per year, but then you have no rights.                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER asked why they have a limit of 1,500 gallons for               
 domestic use and 500 for commercial.  MR. PROKOSCH said they did              
 not intend to assess people who have a lot of related uses for                
 lawns, animals, etc.   They still have to apply for water rights,             
 but they don't have to pay the fee.                                           
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK asked him if this bill would eliminate all fees or              
 just the little fees.  MR. DAVIDGE replied that the way they read             
 the bill it would eliminate the annual $50 administrative service             
 fee.  Under this bill people would still pay an application fee.              
 He explained that the state has an on-going administrative                    
 responsibility to maintain the water rights.  It is extremely                 
 important to maintain current information, because there are a lot            
 of water use changes.                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK asked Senator Miller if he was trying to eliminate              
 the annual nuisance factor.  SENATOR MILLER said that was correct,            
 but he wanted to make sure that was all they eliminated.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR ADAMS noted that the administration was against the                   
 legislation.  He thought it would also be against the amendment.              
 He asked how the loss of revenue from collection of the fee,                  
 $117,000, would affect the Department.  MR. DAVIDGE answered that             
 means he would probably have to lay off 1 full time adjudicator and           
 reduce another adjudicator to half time.  He said he has over 2,000           
 permitting actions he can't get done, even now.  Because of his               
 inability to process them, these projects can't move forward.                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR ADAMS noted that a couple of years ago they passed SB 66,             
 the fees bill enabling various agencies to pay for their own                  
 programs.  He said this bill was going backwards in that respect.             
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER said he intended to work on the legislation some               
 more and adjourned the meeting at 4:18 p.m.                                   
                                                                               

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